AH.FM On Demand *feedback needed*

[JayCan]

so when i look at the DJ side of that all....

I give each month a set to AH.FM like the most other djs. With the demand system the users will be able to download these sets when they pay a lil ...my question is, are all djs okay with that ? i mean is f.e. Shulz okay with the DL of his GDJB ??? coz if not...we will have problems...and when yes every DJ is okay with that, what more than the general Promotion is for the DJs ? For a DJ its easy to do the same extra Promotion what the on demand will bring ...every dj can put a DL link in the DJ and Producer Corner when he/she wants that extra Promotion...so if you ask ME as DJ i would say NO to a on demand system coz i cant check how often is it downloaded etc but the feedback on a Thread in Forums then is a lil bit control and shows me a part who has catched my set coz i see the users writing in there that they catch it etc.
From the USER Side of me i would say YESSSS coz i have not the time to listen to each set live...but there is the point...when i have no time to listen in normal why should i have suddenly time to hear on demand ???

So i cant say what will be the best. I see 2 different sides...he DJ side and the user side...

Everything has costs...for DAN to run the station or the new on demand system, for a DJ the equipment, the tracks, etc
So from DJ Side i would say if the user needs to pay for the DL, the incoming money must be split ... one half for DAn to fix the costs for the system, other half for the DJs...and so it is NOT to manage coz who will say wich dj gets wich money ...

I see also a general point what Sunny said...Ah and all its services were always free for the user...some donate, others not... as i understood DAN until now his dream is, to give the world best service for free...so the user will always say what Sunny said...i catch all what is free , what isnt free its not interesting, and the donaters will say no problem, i donate so i get a better service then...but how will you control that all ??? Yu will maybe create a 2 different users community...the one half is the user paying group, the other the "normalos"

so i see alot of problems comming with that

in general i would say...keep as much as free as possible to make ah grow, but i understand that costs are there, but the user isnt station manager or staff or something like that , so to ask for money will always be a nesty situation

other point is, who needs any replay if a on demand system is established ?? so there in my mind we will have shitloads of free slots then for new djs or longer shows, coz replay you can replay as often as you like with the on demand system, but the other side is without a replay the most user never will hear the set when they dont pay for a on demand system...and the so community will go smaller and smaller

ahhhhhhhhh

so many things to think about

 

[Tomek]

my question is, are all djs okay with that ? i mean is f.e. Shulz okay with the DL of his GDJB ??? coz if not...we will have problems...

I guess he didnt allow to download his sets from old torrents site due to royalty fees and unclear law situation, now it'll be fixed


Paid on demand system is imo good idea... similar system have proton and frisky radio afaik... they offer you to listen or download your fav shows whenever you want for $10 per month. Regular listeners still can catch replays of the previous shows for free, but at unscheduled times (so kinda like it is here now)...

Personally, i dont really care about that option as i wasnt really using torrents often... But it might help cover some costs if there will be enough people willing to pay for it :smile: if it works for other stations should work here as well :smile:

 

[RichT2008]

I would be happy to pay for an on demand service, since (as I have pointed out before) I simply cannot get access to AH.FM during the daytime.

A download option would be even better, then at least I can listen in the car or on my ipod in the gym!

If the quality of the playback/download is at least 192K mp3, then I personally would pay $5 to $10 a month to get access without any issue.

It was great to get the sets for nothing via the torrent site. But I used to donate fairly regularly anyway, as it was well worth supporting such a great feature.

Whilst I can still get lots of music for free from the likes of ETN.FM's torrent site, the quality of AH.FM's sets (and variety) is un-paralleled.

 

[t4e]

This is kind of simla to what was being offered at the other station where many of us came from, they called it premium, where you had a channel that played replays and stuff and supposedly got a better quality sound if you payed for it. I never payed for that and I wouldnt be paying for this. So I would definately be voting no to your proposal.

not similar in any way....

maybe you remember when they added the the Content Link Advertising back in November 2006, where certain key words in posts would turn to hyperlinks

extremely annoying, but was a way for them to make some money

Premium gave ppl access to better quality stream, but it came with other perks, the most important of all was the option to disable the damn Content Link Advertising and also not to hear the Commercials in the middle of the sets, as well as in between them.

"leather trimmed shift knob for your Syon" anyone?

I was one that chose to pay for the Premium service, not only for the better quality of the stream, or to get rid of the advertising, but purely because i got a "free ride" for 4 years and i watched the place develop and evolve, and i figured its time i show my appreciation and give something back.

What happened there, stays there, i am not mentioning this to open a can of worms, and start a discussion about the other place.

Also when i came over to AH, I had a pretty good idea what it takes financially to run such a service so i chose to become a Supporter right away, to show my appreciation for what i am being offered.

Same goes for Torrents, i hardly downloaded anything but i still donated.

This is not intended to imply to anyone that they have to donate, is just my own opinion and what and why i chose to do it.


Now, what would everyone think if we had that Content Link Advertising introduced in this forums?

I already see ppl complaining about the Google adds being distracting, obviously they do not realize that as little as it may be its a source of covering some of the costs of running AH.

 

[dan]

I guess he didnt allow to download his sets from old torrents site due to royalty fees and unclear law situation, now it'll be fixed


Paid on demand system is imo good idea... similar system have proton and frisky radio afaik... they offer you to listen or download your fav shows whenever you want for $10 per month. Regular listeners still can catch replays of the previous shows for free, but at unscheduled times (so kinda like it is here now)...

Personally, i dont really care about that option as i wasnt really using torrents often... But it might help cover some costs if there will be enough people willing to pay for it :smile: if it works for other stations should work here as well :smile:

yeah frisky does it friskyRadio | Subscription Downloads

I know a few other stations do also, this is just a extra service that some people would like to have, people that always looked for sets to download on sites will keep on doing that, but there is and are those people that would rather have the luxury to pay small fee and download it.

I think many people forget that AH.FM is FREE 192k.

 

[The Cat Lady]

Okay. I was at the other place for 4 years, too. And like t4e, I was a Premium Member for the same reasons that she gave. I'm a supporter here and I pay more here than I paid there, about twice as much. I'm happier here and I prefer sets to track rotations. I can live without ASOT.

I have a tiny idea what it costs Dan to do these things. I'm running the replacement torrent site, poor though it is. Pure stop gap measure until Dan gets this off the ground. I GOTTA have AH on my iPods and in my car. And folks, I can tell you IT IS NOT FREE.

Dan is trying so hard to give us the very best with the least amount of disruption. I HATE those new Google ads. They work. They draw my eyes away from the posts. I hate that. IMHO Supporters should not have to see them. I didn't mind the regular link ads. I even clicked on a few of them. Point is, Dan is trying to survive just like the rest of us are and he's NOT independently wealthy. He has to defray his costs however he can. JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE WOULD DO.

I love this idea. And I don't mind paying for it. It's worth it. Period.

 

[Config85]

Jaycan has some good points in his post, but i'll pick this one out:

Everything has costs...for DAN to run the station or the new on demand system, for a DJ the equipment, the tracks, etc
So from DJ Side i would say if the user needs to pay for the DL, the incoming money must be split ... one half for DAn to fix the costs for the system, other half for the DJs...and so it is NOT to manage coz who will say wich dj gets wich money ...

He's totally right here. If AH would be selling sets the dj's mixed it's kind of unfair towards their dj's if i may say so. We mixed it and bought our tracks , gear and all the necessary stuff. It's not cheap for us who mix with decent dj gear too. If there would be something to pay for a single set i think the dj should be getting a part of this. How big that part is? I don't know. How will AH manage it? I don't know? But selling sets that dj's gave in for free is not to be done.



The best thing is to work with a login system where people just subscribe to the on demand system and pay a fee for that. After that it should be ALL free. Even the set downloads, cus then we're getting onto the first problem again.

I have no doubt AH will choose this option instead of pay per download sets. It's the better in every kind of way.


There will still be a lot (or even more) dj's who will drop their download links at the end of the sets, so i think in all cases people will be satisfied.

 

[The Cat Lady]

And yeah, you can go to the DJs sites and get them, if you can find them. Do you know what a pain in the ass that is? I DO! I'M DOING IT NOW for TAP. This is SO much better. You can hear it before you buy it, you can have it ALL if you desire it. And you DON'T have to go HUNT it down or BEG for it like I'm doing now.

I WANT my torrents site to become obsolete and no longer needed. This is THE way to achieve that goal. Come on people. Be reasonable. Sunny. Hey. I want my mortgage for free. My light bill, water bill and Internet service free, too. Free food would be great and free gas wonderful.

I can also want in one hand and shit in the other. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH!

 

[dan]

Jaycan has some good points in his post, but i'll pick this one out:



He's totally right here. If AH would be selling sets the dj's mixed it's kind of unfair towards their dj's if i may say so. We mixed it and bought our tracks , gear and all the necessary stuff. It's not cheap for us who mix with decent dj gear too. If there would be something to pay for a single set i think the dj should be getting a part of this. How big that part is? I don't know. How will AH manage it? I don't know? But selling sets that dj's gave in for free is not to be done.



The best thing is to work with a login system where people just subscribe to the on demand system and pay a fee for that. After that it should be ALL free. Even the set downloads, cus then we're getting onto the first problem again.

I have no doubt AH will choose this option instead of pay per download sets. It's the better in every kind of way.


There will still be a lot (or even more) dj's who will drop their download links at the end of the sets, so i think in all cases people will be satisfied.

I think this is where the organization needs to pay for royalties, and not the djs. Your forgetting the people who really should be getting paid are the producers who produce the music that you play. Yes you create the sets to be aired on AH.FM but in return you get promoted across the globe. So you have to look at it as yes they might have the system and people can download BUT they are paying royalties for those sets, royalties that go back to the producers. Essentially users that will use this service are the ones that are supporting the producers.

 

[Config85]

That's not entirely true. As i said; Dj's already have supported the producers too. They bought the tracks they play in the sets and therefor have the right to play those tracks out. Indeed the organization needs to pay for royalties, it's true. But that's not the only party who pays for the tracks to be played Actually a dj supports the producers even more than the users will. The users would be paying for a single set, which will cost a lot less than buying all the tracks in the set on itself, the sum of those tracks will be lots higher.

Also a reason why i think a subscription in return for a fee is a way better way for an on demand system.

Of course dj's should be very grateful for the promotion they get, and i don't think any dj over here isn't grateful for that

 

[Jellyfish]

Some years ago someone created rapidshare as one of the best free hosting sites, and quickly it grew and became the main site to upload all kind of illegal stuff such music, films, tv series… so they added their special feature.. “u can pay us some extra money and u will get high speed and you wont have to wait 1 hour till start to download your next file”. People went crazy and everybody said.. “I wont pay for anything that I can get it for free, I can wait”. 5 years later most of ppl have megaupload or rapidshare accounts cause that little monthly cash, makes their lives easier.


Humans (and dancers ) do not like to wait, we do like to control everything, even music schedule. I really think that on demand thing would be so useful, not only cause I can download my favourite shows and keep them with me forever, also because sometimes, specially during mornings, replays don’t fit with my activities (sometimes too prog, sometimes too uplift) or maybe cause I listened to those shows the day before and I don’t want to listen to them again.. then, the only thing I need is to log in into my premium account and listen to whatever I want.

That makes my life easier.

 

[The Cat Lady]

Jelly, I'm with you. I like to control as much of my life as possible. I hadn't though of your particular angle, but you are absolutely right. When there is a REPLAY on I don't particularly want to hear again, I can listen to a different set, AND DOWNLOAD IT TOO! I've died and gone to River Oaks. :angel:

 

[t4e]

That's not entirely true. As i said; Dj's already have supported the producers too. They bought the tracks they play in the sets and therefor have the right to play those tracks out.

i just have few words to say as reply to that:

a DJ will make more money in one night playing in a club than a producer will ever make in a year for his track

 

[The Cat Lady]

i just have few words to say as reply to that:

a DJ will make more money in one night playing in a club than a producer will ever make in a year for his track

And that is why all the headliners have to do those grueling world wind tours. To make enough money to pay for their producing habits. I couldn't do it and neither could Config, I'll bet. Otherwise, he would be doing it. But I imagine that he'd rather have a REAL life.

 

[firefox_muc]

I should be sleeping at this time. Nevertheless.

There is no need to have all sets on demand or for download. If some DJs don't want to - leave them alone!

About donating I would like to see a poll whether people prefer other ways to donate than paypal. I do! I didn't donate to torrents because paypal was the one and only option. I'm sorry for that Kowy. There are other ways to donate to AH. I don't know whether the service for credit card donations would be an option.

@ Dan: frisky can't compete - 128k only.

Torrents are closed since more than two months now. Looking around I found a lot of sets for legal download. This does not include T-*P.
And I tested other stations.

On demand can not substitute downloads, at least not now. Like many others I like to listen to my favourite DJs in my car. In some years we may have stable internet stream even in our car or elsewhere. I still buy CDs, [Advertisement] Mellomania [/Advertisement] for example.

Whatever you do - good luck! It's impossible to turn back the clock.

 

[dfx]

They bought the tracks they play in the sets and therefor have the right to play those tracks out.

wrong, buying a track only entitles you to listen to it personally, it does NOT give you the right to play it in any sort of public event - no broadcasting, no public events, no filesharing, no download links etc, nothing like that, not even if it's mixed in a set.

 

[The Cat Lady]

JayCan.

I disagree. The DJs and Producers Corner is NOT the Ritz-Carlton. I LIVE on AH and I think I've been in that thread twice. So I do not see that as a good place for anyone to get REAL promotion and exposure. The On Demand service, however will do that for them because it's OUT FRONT and I would imagine that Dan will give it a prominent spot on the home page there.

As to the 2-class system, we already have that. We have the Supporters and the Freeloaders. Not that there's anything wrong, per se, to being a freeloader. I do it, too, you bet. Just not here. But so far as I can tell, I haven't seen any rioting in the streets between the two groups. We all get along just fine. So I just don't see that as a valid argument for or against the On Demand/Download.

You have a VERY valid point about REPLAY in the general meaning of the term. With On Demand, it becomes wasteful of space. If Dan used those time slots for new DJs, he might be able to pull in the other time zones in the US better. It's not much fun for the folks on the Left Coast. No live sets, no one in the forums to talk to. I'd like to see a few more DJs on board for the left hand time zones.

 

[The Cat Lady]

wrong, buying a track only entitles you to listen to it personally, it does NOT give you the right to play it in any sort of public event - no broadcasting, no public events, no filesharing, no download links etc, nothing like that, not even if it's mixed in a set.

Technically, you are absolutely correct (depending on the copyright laws of your particular country). Every time a track is played publicly in any way, the artist "should" get a little cut. He/she don't. Things would be different if they did. But it's nearly impossible to enforce that.

God knows the RIAA is trying their damnedest to get their hooks into that pie.

 

[Tarek]

This is a toughie...

Frankly I think you have outdone yourself. The torrent server was a bonus, everyone knew that. Without a download method, the raw basics are the only things in place. Sunny's point of view is not unique (I'm not entirely agreeing with him though). Many people, especially the listeners that do no sign up and contribute, share Sunny's opinion, I can guarantee that. So by offering a service, you're just giving a foothold for exploitation of a new service, if it's free of course.

If it's not free, however, what stops someone from subscribing, downloading a bunch of sets (if we take Config's idea) and just uploading them on a blog or ftp server and giving links to all the "normalies"? Nothing is the answer. Of course you'd say that's our problem, but then it comes back to the same thing. Anyone can easily record sets live anyways for free, it's not that difficult. There are so many loopholes in a system like this.

What I'm saying is, leave ah.fm the way it is right now. It should be the user's choice to donate or not and be supportive, and it should be the DJ's choice to publicly distribute his/her set, whether locally, or at their own expense/time. There are many problems that can arise with a system like that. This way, you wouldn't be spending money and the subscribers wouldn't be spending money for this system while people can easily exploit it for free.

As for the rare exceptions like t4e, with unparalleled levels of thoughfulness and selflessness..I'm not sure what you'd do..maybe instead of hosting a whole torrent website..just subscribe to a hoster and upload everything there..I'm pretty sure it's not as expensive.

Also..the whole idea of having more time space for new DJs can easily be done even without the on-demand..they do not relate to eachother..

firefox said that you cannot turn back the clock, and he is absolutely right. People who listen to sets here look for the download link provided by the DJ..or look at their myspace blogs or whaetver, and alot of the times you find them without much effort.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just stating my opinion

 

[The Cat Lady]

Firefox_muc. It's okay to say it. It's not the F-Bomb. TAP, TAP, TAP, TAP. Like dancing on terrazzo tile. :LMAO:

I'm not entirely illegal. Only semi. I have the written permission of the DJ on file for every set I have, with the exceptions of the big AH events. And I'm not going to kill myself to try to get them anymore. It's just flat more than I can handle all by myself. EOYC 08 almost killed me to put that together for TAP. I still feel like I need a vacation. I won't be doing that again.

Dan can do this better than I will EVER be able to do. People think I'm the enemy for what I did. Not hardly. I'm one of AH's biggest fans. OBVIOUSLY. Or I wouldn't be busting my ass like I am. I love AfterHours. I love Dan and all the Staff. And I adore our DJs. Everything I do is for them. As soon as On Demand is viable and up and running, TAP closes. No one will need it anymore. Not even me.