AH.FM On Demand *feedback needed*

[Joe-Shadows]

Nice Idea But !

Really The Discussion Goes Very Positive
​

In MY P.O.V ,,, @ First I Agree That Running The station Costs Dan Alot & AH is Not A Commercial Entity ,, it's 100% Free ,,, So I Agree On That AH.FM On Demand Payment But I may Not Use it !!!!

Talking as Accountant , Not A DJ or User Now !!!

I 've ManY Ideas On That :-

1- Make The On Demand Free for Listening Live @ The Website But Make The Download for Premium Users Or Instant Payment for One Set

2- Other Things Finance AH May be Good
For Ex : Make A Record Label For Ah ,, AH has a great Name & many Resident Producer @ AH & 'll Hurry Up to Sign Thier Tracks in ... Also You Can Make Other Miscellenous Things On Store Like T-Shirts !! ( Caps , DVDs For AH shows , etc )

3- I Dont See DJs 've The Write To 've Money from That AH in Demand ! As The Whole Thing Promote Them !! & Anyway The Radio Station Idea is to rebroadcast What DJs Plays on Thier COncerts @ Radio , Spreading The Music .... etc , So DJs 've Other ways 2 Get Money By Doing Concerts Or Producing Tracks

4- AH.FM Sets May Be A Releases On BeatPort ,, BeatPort Sells Mixes ,,, Then Why Not AH. SEts Sold To beatport , & Dividing The Profits ( Beatport , AH , The DJ ) , That's Other Way For Financing Also !!!

5- Google Commercials Dont Annoy me @ All ,, Just installed The Add-Block From Firefox & it Dont appear

At Last All OF These 're Several Opinions By Me & I Really Appreciate What Dan Does For Us & we All 've to Thank Him For Bringing AH to Us & The Unlimited Work He Do ! , & Has The Write To Ask For Donations But He Dont , He Just Know That People Who Love Ah & Can Donate > 'll Donates

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

 

[trace of trance]

I hardly ever download any sets since I like to listen them "live" so I prolly wouldnt susbcribe the on demand service. If do need a set or 2 like once in 6 months time im pretty sure I can get then for free. And I actually think replays kinda cover the on demand listening system. The download service is totally different thing. I know theres ppl who wants get newest sets coz they do listen them in mp3 players or so its good for them I guess.

However its a step to a commercial playground direction and I dont like it. I think there is other better ways to cover costs like for example "a cost cover campaign" where u pay voluntarily some amount of money and get a t-shirt or so in return.

 

[JayCan]

To pick shortly up some points Config and my great Friend TCL said...

i tell you what i think about DJs they didnt promote their self: Let them go *haha* not really but, hey...from my point i give every Set for Download for free on several places: My Social Group, in the Show Thread, via PM or Mail, sometimes on other Boards...yeah and if anybody asks me i give my set coz i love musik and want to that everybody can be with my sounds....OTHER DJs do NOT...never in Life ther is a Lange Set for free anywhere on that globe...coz his Management dontwant that...so pfff...i dont listen Lange ( its just an example i dont bash at him ;-) ...
And as i said before... i see both or many sides of that

In general an ON DEMAND SYSTEM is a real great Service and maybe a hundred Users will use it. On Other Side then to make it really Exclusive the Replays have to go coz a intelligent user can record it live or the several replays..what is illegal but ppl do it ;-) ....and so comes the next step....they could do it the whole day without anybody knows...i know im talking about the black sheeps but they are those who kills every idea and service...

For me in General A ON DEMAND SYSTEM is a great thing
The Problems to keep it as the idea said is really difficult and i dont know what will happen to AH when this comes arround....maybe a testing phase will give more information about how users will handle with that service

for an idea cozing on discussion about DJs, Producers etc....sure the producers need the money but: Do you really think the few buggs from an AH ON DEMAND SYSTEM will help ARMIN to produce a new track ??? Not really...the money comes from the labels etc and Producers make the contracts with the labels and then when song is aired they should get money for that IF IT IS A COMERCIAL RADIO STATION...in Internet Radio Business i never heard about a station who needs to pay for the Tracks they are aired there...so THIS could be a great chance to make AH the real no ONE...if there is collected Income from the ON DEMAND SYSTEM...and DAN will give a few bucks of that to a POT where the DJs and Producers on AH subscribe too he will make history coz then hes the First and Only Station Manager looking for the PPL they do the Musik...so maybe ate the end of year there is then a big pot and every Producer and DJ gets a lil money out of that....OR and other idea is to spend that to upcomming Talents...who knows

so at last...yes TO a ON DEMAND SYSTEM but then do replays down...make the shows bigger and went over to a 24/7 hour live Radio exclusive DJ set Station

 

[Lazarus]

OK, here's my two cents:

As TCL said, nothing is free. Free stuff on the internet is an illusion as someone somewhere is paying for it.

An on-demand service for AH would be costly, in terms of storage space and bandwidth, and it's safe to say that over the past year AH's bandwidth costs have probably doubled or so, given that the listeners seem to be double they were 12 months back, give or take.

On "normal" FM radio, there are two types - commercial radio which is funded by advertising, and public service radio which is funded by taxes (like the BBC for example).

I love the fact that AH is run for the love of the music and not for profit, which is why I've no problem being a supporter every month, but it's easy for me to say as I have a full time job and it's easy for me to pay through paypal. However, I know that there are others not in this position.

So for me the question is - "If the on-demand service were to exist, how would it be funded?" It's not fair to ask Dan to pay for everything because although he's a fantastic guy I'm sure he's neither a millionaire nor willing to bankrupt himself for the sake of online radio.

Hence I think these are the options we have:

• Make the on-demand service available only to subscribers for a fee (providing the fees cover the costs of the service itself)

• Make the on-demand service available to all in the hope that more people come to the site and donate to cover the costs of the service itself

• Don't make the on-demand service at all and leave things as they are now (as TCL says, a lot of sets you can acquire if your patience and googling skills are up to scratch)

• Increase the amount of advertising on the site and/or the stream itself

Out of the options I like the last one best as a long-term solution. We have a great community here and lots of listeners which makes us a good marketing spot for advertisers. It would mean perhaps 2-3 mins of adverts inbetween one-hour shows, or maybe 4-5 mins after 2 hour shows, so the DJs would each, say, have to play one less tune per set. But in the greater scheme of things, people listen to adverts on normal FM radio without a second thought and ensure them because it pays for everything else - likewise the same is true for TV.

You see, what is going to happen in the next few years is that internet radio is going to find it's way into people's cars, and when that happens, internet radio is going to become massive. And when it does, the bandwidth side of things is going to become a far bigger issue than on-demand services, but again, the question will be how it will be paid for. And the answer then, I believe, will be in advertising.

 

[Config85]

i just have few words to say as reply to that:

a DJ will make more money in one night playing in a club than a producer will ever make in a year for his track

well i don't really think you can generalize 'a DJ' like that. Not every dj is so lucky to play in clubs and at parties And the few times it might happen, it won't compensate the expenses of the tracks you're buying

 

[Config85]

wrong, buying a track only entitles you to listen to it personally, it does NOT give you the right to play it in any sort of public event - no broadcasting, no public events, no filesharing, no download links etc, nothing like that, not even if it's mixed in a set.

that's where the royalties kick in of course. Party, radio, and club organizers pay that money. At least , that's how it works in Belgium.
And i know that it's not legal to spread your sets, but that's where the royalties kick in, which are less high than the total cost of all the tracks in that set. That's what my point was/is.

Either way dfx, you've been sharing sets too, so you know how dj's feel about that.

 

[t4e]

well i don't really think you can generalize 'a DJ' like that. Not every dj is so lucky to play in clubs and at parties And the few times it might happen, it won't compensate the expenses of the tracks you're buying

there's two categories of DJ's

those that want to break in the business and make a living from DJ'ing, in which case is the same as any other job, you have to find ways of promoting yourself.
your "tools" are the hardware and the tracks you need to make the set.


than there's those that do it for the love of music as a hobby


what i'm getting at is that for those that wish to make a living out of DJing they need to invest , in themselves afaic, without the expectation of an immediate return on their investment.

 

[JayCan]

what i'm getting at is that for those that wish to make a living out of DJing they need to invest , in themselves afaic, without the expectation of an immediate return on their investment.

so true

 

[trace of trance]

what i'm getting at is that for those that wish to make a living out of DJing they need to invest , in themselves afaic, without the expectation of an immediate return on their investment.

There we get to the point... is this on demand meant to make profit to AH or just cover expenses.... where is the line of being non-profit organisation as AH has advertised itself? Everyone makes own conclusions

 

[t4e]

There we get to the point... is this on demand meant to make profit to AH or just cover expenses.... where is the line of being non-profit organisation as AH has advertised itself? Everyone makes own conclusions

my reply was to config and has nothing to do with the On-Demand system




AH is not even a Not For Profit Organization, because that would imply that is subsidized, meaning that the running costs are covered by an independent source.

The thread was open to get opinions from people as to whether this will be a worthwhile service, before actually investing a lot of money into it

Looks to me that instead its all turning into a discussion about what profits are to be made and who's gonna get a piece of it.

 

[dan]

There we get to the point... is this on demand meant to make profit to AH or just cover expenses.... where is the line of being non-profit organisation as AH has advertised itself? Everyone makes own conclusions

ON demand would like to break even with the running costs, thats the whole purpose of this thread, to see who would be interested in subscribing before I invest all this money into getting a developer to develop it, server, huge disks to hold 12 months of sets, backup, monthly bandwidth bills + royalties since there will be sets for download.

Thank you

 

[trace of trance]

my reply was to config and has nothing to do with the On-Demand system




AH is not even a Not For Profit Organization, because that would imply that is subsidized, meaning that the running costs are covered by an independent source.

The thread was open to get opinions from people as to whether this will be a worthwhile service, before actually investing a lot of money into it

Looks to me that instead its all turning into a discussion about what profits are to be made and who's gonna get a piece of it.

ON demand would like to break even with the running costs, thats the whole purpose of this thread, to see who would be interested in subscribing before I invest all this money into getting a developer to develop it, server, huge disks to hold 12 months of sets, backup, monthly bandwidth bills + royalties since there will be sets for download.

Thank you

sorry if u got offended my point wasnt to attack on anyone... just give an another point of view i already answered for my part of the service in my first post

 

[trace of trance]

The thread was open to get opinions from people as to whether this will be a worthwhile service, before actually investing a lot of money into it

Looks to me that instead its all turning into a discussion about what profits are to be made and who's gonna get a piece of it.

it just have to be clear and see through for everyone if its for making profit or covering just cost always when u ask money from other ppl in the name of cost covers... coz if not then we are moving slightly on a fraud.


im sure AH needs more money to cover costs I just dont like the idea it would turn to be another comercial radio... "the free" thing was the main reason why I & the ppl I invited got here in the first place

 

[dan]

it just have to be clear and see through for everyone if its for making profit or covering just cost always when u ask money from other ppl in the name of cost covers... coz if not then we are moving slightly on a fraud.


im sure AH needs more money to cover costs I just dont like the idea it would turn to be another comercial radio... "the free" thing was the main reason why I & the ppl I invited got here in the first place

It was free and it is free and it will be free, however were talking about a whole new service for people that are willing to subscribe and use it, others can still download shows from myspace etc where ever they were getting it before.

"extra" service that has a subscription on it to cover the running costs and pay royalties. AH.FM 192k 96k etc is all free nothing is changing in that aspect.

Once again all i wanted was feedback, nothing is set in stone, thank you.

 

[Config85]

what i'm getting at is that for those that wish to make a living out of DJing they need to invest , in themselves afaic, without the expectation of an immediate return on their investment.

Of course. I agree with that. Actually myself , i'm not that much of a big dj, and the parties i played i did it for free actually. You have to build a name first. It's true you can't expect an immediate return for all the efforts you make, i don't even want that. Everything until now i did it for free. Lots of deejays are willing to give out their sets for free, but if someone is charging people for sets you gave in for free, of course a dj would like a small cut out of that. I think it's not more than logic. If AH ONLY charges the royalties that have to be paid for a set than i have not a single problem with it. If there will be an extra part of profit in the price, then i'm pointing to the first part of my post..


Either way, i think this is a very interesting discussion. And it's not because i'm pointing out some things about an on demand service that i'm against it Just drawing people's attention to some aspects that might cause discussion later on

Once again all i wanted was feedback, nothing is set in stone, thank you.

of course, we're only trying to help here

 

[trace of trance]

It was free and it is free and it will be free, however were talking about a whole new service for people that are willing to subscribe and use it, others can still download shows from myspace etc where ever they were getting it before.

"extra" service that has a subscription on it to cover the running costs and pay royalties. AH.FM 192k 96k etc is all free nothing is changing in that aspect.

Once again all i wanted was feedback, nothing is set in stone, thank you.

thats good to hear the plans are only for chargeable on demand service

anyway I will vote Maybe coz I cant say defo No either

 

[t4e]

Of course. I agree with that. Actually myself , i'm not that much of a big dj, and the parties i played i did it for free actually. You have to build a name first. It's true you can't expect an immediate return for all the efforts you make, i don't even want that. Everything until now i did it for free. Lots of deejays are willing to give out their sets for free, but if someone is charging people for sets you gave in for free, of course a dj would like a small cut out of that. I think it's not more than logic. If AH ONLY charges the royalties that have to be paid for a set than i have not a single problem with it. If there will be an extra part of profit in the price, then i'm pointing to the first part of my post..


Either way, i think this is a very interesting discussion. And it's not because i'm pointing out some things about an on demand service that i'm against it Just drawing people's attention to some aspects that might cause discussion later on



of course, we're only trying to help here

i agree with that, and the intention of having a charge for OnDemand is not that ppl pay for the sets but rather for the resources that allows for that, i.e. storage, bandwidth and so on...maybe the wording in the original post was less than perfect :smile:

to make an analogy i'll use the example of one of my experiences:

once upon a time i had no mp3 player, but rather a CD player, so the DJ that introduced me to trance offered his sets for free, like everyone else, but also if you were too lazy, clueless or whatever else, to burn them yourself he would do it for you with a beautiful artwork printed on it and mail it for a small fee, which only covered the cost of the blank CD, printing supplies and postage

 

[r3s1s74nc3]

Hello everyone,

Also there is a chance of a "download" feature that might be available

This one rocks! Thank you Dan hope that this will be available

 

[piccoli]

It was free and it is free and it will be free, however were talking about a whole new service for people that are willing to subscribe and use it, others can still download shows from myspace etc where ever they were getting it before.

"extra" service that has a subscription on it to cover the running costs and pay royalties. AH.FM 192k 96k etc is all free nothing is changing in that aspect.

Once again all i wanted was feedback, nothing is set in stone, thank you.

i'm not being negative here Dan, just a bit real, i think there will not have enough "demand" to cover the expanses, i see nowadays people wants everything by free, if they want free they have the streaming radio already and it's not easy to run it.

I think you remember our conversation in Vienna, the most important is you first try to get a sponsor like google or coca-cola, like America on line sponsors ETN radio

 

[jedrekmx]

i'm not being negative here Dan, just a bit real, i think there will not have enough "demand" to cover the expanses, i see nowadays people wants everything by free, if they want free they have the streaming radio already and it's not easy to run it.

I think you remember our conversation in Vienna, the most important is you first try to get a sponsor like google or coca-cola, like America on line sponsors ETN radio

Sorry to go off topic butt It's really hard to get sponsors, and then in time when you do you are at the mercy of what the sponsors what since they are paying out of their pockets for your service.