31-03-2007 Afterhours.FM Torrent Server *closed as of Dec 1st 08*

[dan]

I assume there is not enough money 'in the pot' to run both torrents and the on demand service through donations?

Looks like I am going to have to bribe our ICT depatment at work to let me stream AH.FM through their firewall!!!

just use our firewall friendly links
we have servers running on port 80 and 443 which should be able to stream with firewalls on.

let me know

 

[firefox_muc]

...Im sure other people will make use of the on demand.

To rip the shows in that way?

 

[RichT2008]

Is it even legal to record radio broadcasts? I do have that facility on my PC.
But to be honest, taking one hour to record a one hour show..........
plus the chances are it will 'drop out' a few times while recording.......
no thanks!

The main thing I will miss about having no torrents is listening in my car.

Would it be possible to keep the AH.FM listeners informed if the Dj's make their shows available on their own (or someone else's) website for DL at a later date?

Examples of Dj's doing this are are Kenneth Thomas, Jon O Bir or even the likes of Hernan Cattaneo etc.

 

[dan]

Is it even legal to record radio broadcasts? I do have that facility on my PC.
But to be honest, taking one hour to record a one hour show..........
plus the chances are it will 'drop out' a few times while recording.......
no thanks!

The main thing I will miss about having no torrents is listening in my car.

Would it be possible to keep the AH.FM listeners informed if the Dj's make their shows available on their own (or someone else's) website for DL at a later date?

Examples of Dj's doing this are are Kenneth Thomas, Jon O Bir or even the likes of Hernan Cattaneo etc.

Most djs have it for download on their personal websites... wont be that bad
Thank you for understanding.

 

[dfx]

Is it even legal to record radio broadcasts? I do have that facility on my PC.

depends on where you live. unfortunately i don't know how it is in the UK. i know it's legal in at least certain parts of the EU for personal use only (and possibly you may even give a very limited number of copies to friends, family etc)

but the same also applies for the torrent downloads of course...

 

[t4e]

To rip the shows in that way?

just to get one thing straight....links to stream ripped sets won't be allowed in this forums.....

Would it be possible to keep the AH.FM listeners informed if the Dj's make their shows available on their own (or someone else's) website for DL at a later date?

if you suggesting that WE, the staff, keep the listeners informed...that is not a feasible idea, either you check their website or contact them directly if you wish to have their set, sometimes they will even post a download link in the thread

 

[SentriX]

why cant you do what the bbc does...they have a streamer and you have the option to download for a certain amount of time. After that time the downloads expire.

 

[SentriX]

just use our firewall friendly links
we have servers running on port 80 and 443 which should be able to stream with firewalls on.

let me know

you do realise your firewall links dont always work? Like in my college for example. Again I don't think its ease of use people are after but more a means to listen. On demand relies on streaming technologies, some (most) establishments dont allow streaming at all reguardless of what port is used.

 

[The Cat Lady]

why cant you do what the bbc does...they have a streamer and you have the option to download for a certain amount of time. After that time the downloads expire.

I think it's awful, terrible, horrible to lose the ability to listen to my favorite sets in my car or while I'm outside mowing the lawn. I love the Torrents site. I was a paying member. If it's worth having, it's worth paying for. AH will lose that cash from me.

I have no use for streaming on demand. It doesn't solve the problem of listening anywhere other than at my computer. I already spend 12+ hours a day at my computer. I HAVE to get out of the house SOMETIME! And I WANT to be able to listen to my wonderful AH sets when I do.

This is the most negative and destructive thing you have ever done. If certain DJs/Producers don't want their stuff on Torrents, no problem, leave them out. Who needs them? But keep those who do! I don't want to have to go to 100 different sites to download sets. I just don't have the time. I have a job, I have a home to take care of, I try to have a life! I loved the convenience of having a centralized location to get my favorite shows. It was easy, it worked perfectly for me, and I PAID for the privilege!

And now you are going to destroy all of that just to make a couple of DJs/Producers happy? You are going to punish the many just to please the spoiled rotten few? How sad. How pathetic. How ... cowardly. I'm very, very disappointed.

SentriX: Your idea is excellent. That would be perfect. (kiss)

 

[90degrees]

you can't look at it from just the listeners PoV, there is a lot of legal stuff involved.
If those producers/labels you would like to do without would hypothetically include armada or anjuna (I know out of experience of Vandit being very anal about their stuff in unpaid unasked for promos) a lot of DJs however biased to this matter would lose a lot of stuff to spin, with that industry recognition and in the end bookings and inclusions in label promoted events/projects.
AH could lose a lot of established DJs that way, maybe even more..

in the end it's still unpaid for, the only receiver of fees for the priviledge to download are the originating artists (NOT the using DJs) and right holding labels.
In effect t's filesharing, just because a DJ promoted a certain track in his mix it doesn't give him any rights to offer it up for ownership, hence the term copyright.
It's a very grey area and I dare to say that every DJ is in violation of those copyrights, if not cleared with the labels or paid up for to some ominous bodies trying to represent DJs to the industry.

You can play it but you can't distribute.

 

[dan]

you can't look at it from just the listeners PoV, there is a lot of legal stuff involved.
If those producers/labels you would like to do without would hypothetically include armada or anjuna (I know out of experience of Vandit being very anal about their stuff in unpaid unasked for promos) a lot of DJs however biased to this matter would lose a lot of stuff to spin, with that industry recognition and in the end bookings and inclusions in label promoted events/projects.
AH could lose a lot of established DJs that way, maybe even more..

in the end it's still unpaid for, the only receiver of fees for the priviledge to download are the originating artists (NOT the using DJs) and right holding labels.
In effect t's filesharing, just because a DJ promoted a certain track in his mix it doesn't give him any rights to offer it up for ownership, hence the term copyright.
It's a very grey area and I dare to say that every DJ is in violation of those copyrights, if not cleared with the labels or paid up for to some ominous bodies trying to represent DJs to the industry.

You can play it but you can't distribute.

Thank you for this... i was actually in the middle of posting something similar, you made the exact points why AH torrents will be going down. Although AH.FM is Canadian based and there is no rules on torrents or file sharing, were not getting support from a few sites due to us having the torrents. Also a good amount of big names not wanting shows here due to that matter.

I understand it was a nice feature to just download the shows, but honestly please don't think I'm doing this cause i want bad for the station, this will only improve AH image, after all I want the best for AH.

Thank you all

 

[The Cat Lady]

you can't look at it from just the listeners PoV, there is a lot of legal stuff involved.
If those producers/labels you would like to do without would hypothetically include armada or anjuna (I know out of experience of Vandit being very anal about their stuff in unpaid unasked for promos) a lot of DJs however biased to this matter would lose a lot of stuff to spin, with that industry recognition and in the end bookings and inclusions in label promoted events/projects.
AH could lose a lot of established DJs that way, maybe even more..

in the end it's still unpaid for, the only receiver of fees for the priviledge to download are the originating artists (NOT the using DJs) and right holding labels.
In effect t's filesharing, just because a DJ promoted a certain track in his mix it doesn't give him any rights to offer it up for ownership, hence the term copyright.
It's a very grey area and I dare to say that every DJ is in violation of those copyrights, if not cleared with the labels or paid up for to some ominous bodies trying to represent DJs to the industry.

You can play it but you can't distribute.

I never said a WORD about distribution. I just want to listen in my car and on my riding lawnmower. That's all. Why is that too much to ask for?

 

[RichT2008]

Clearly AH.FM would prefer to keep things as they are, but others are making this very difficult/impossible to do.

It is a shame, but clearly not the station's fault.

The future of this type of music depends on getting the sound out to as many people as possible.
In this modern world, people have a lot of things calling for their attention. The easy access to sets over time only creates further interest etc.

I think it would be better for all (in the long run) if every station had the approach of AH. The popularity of dance music and it's fan base would grow stronger ultimately. Oh, well.....

I think listening on demand is the next best alternative, so good luck with that guys.

I assume there will be a facilty to rate/comment directly on mixes, as this would help some of us who are a bit 'time strapped' to explore other shows we are not familiar with?

 

[The Cat Lady]

Thank you for this... i was actually in the middle of posting something similar, you made the exact points why AH torrents will be going down. Although AH.FM is Canadian based and there is no rules on torrents or file sharing, were not getting support from a few sites due to us having the torrents. Also a good amount of big names not wanting shows here due to that matter.

I understand it was a nice feature to just download the shows, but honestly please don't think I'm doing this cause i want bad for the station, this will only improve AH image, after all I want the best for AH.

Thank you all

But Dan. We don't want AH to be anything at all like DI. Ever. Unilateral action without getting any input from the users is what DI does. That's what we fled from. That is the EXACT thing I was protesting when I was banned for life. Why would you want to be like Ari? It's frightening and disturbing to me. It sets a very bad precedence. It's why Danmark went to so much time and effort to lure DI's users to your station. BECAUSE AH was NOT like DI and you were NOT like Ari. Do you know that he continues to lure them away as much as he can? All of us expatriates are doing that. We want you to succeed and for Ari to fail.

Please, please, I beg of you. Don't be like Ari. He is not a good or decent man. And I believe that you are, but you are going down a bad path taking unilateral action. As far as I can tell, this is the first time you've ever done that. Please, please, don't do it again. Talk to your Users. We are your customers. I'm not saying that you should do whatever we say, that would be anarchy and unfair to you. I'm saying to get our input, to talk to us. To tell us why. Your reason is too vague. What sites are you referring to? Why would you let other sites dictate to you in the first place? Help me to understand. If you don't want to do that publicly, you can email me. Help me to understand. (kiss)

 

[90degrees]

I never said a WORD about distribution. I just want to listen in my car and on my riding lawnmower. That's all. Why is that too much to ask for?

call it whatever you like, it's not through magic or a mountain crystal thru which you receive your sets - which is data, which is distributed via the internet and by clicking that download link you agree to at least the leeching part (I do hope you did at least some seeding too...) which ultimately makes you a link in that free "distribution" chain of copyrighted products.
Contrary to commercial distribution where a lil truck brings fresh bagels into the local seveneleven and you pay for the priviledge to have some for breakfast.
Except for when some bagel lover or upstarting baker has hijacked that truck and chucks the bagels out of the back or leaves flyers with the address where he stores them for everyone to pick up.

Edit:
I'm still with DI (premium) btw, and it's a subject you should better leave alone, for the sake of the people involved and the consequences it had. Let go.
Also both stations are not comparable.
One is a full range provider, the other one has carved out very successfully a niche for itself.
Both deserve respect and both should co-exist in support for each other and foremost to the scene as such. Also I think this is what Dan aims for and getting rid of the torrents is a big step towards the stations credibility.

 

[dfx]

... We want you to succeed and for Ari to fail.

and that is exactly why torrents have to go. i have always been in favor of torrents, but unfortunately it's hampering us in extending our reach. certain people think that downloadable sets are universally a bad thing, and all attempts at trying to convince them of the opposite have failed. and it's not just a single case.

torrents are a nice service to have, that's why it was created. if there had been any choice, we would of course have asked the users what they prefer, torrents and/or on-demand. however, there was no choice. torrents have to go, because otherwise we're losing additional cooperation. to make up for it, we will create the on-demand thing, but of course we're aware it's not a full replacement.

 

[Altered-Mind]

Edit:
I'm still with DI (premium) btw, and it's a subject you should better leave alone, for the sake of the people involved and the consequences it had. Let go.
Also both stations are not comparable.
One is a full range provider, the other one has carved out very successfully a niche for itself.
Both deserve respect and both should co-exist in support for each other and foremost to the scene as such. Also I think this is what Dan aims for and getting rid of the torrents is a big step towards the stations credibility.

well said 90.

 

[90degrees]

...certain people think that downloadable sets are universally a bad thing, and all attempts at trying to convince them of the opposite have failed. and it's not just a single case.

torrents are a nice service to have, that's why it was created. if there had been any choice, we would of course have asked the users what they prefer, torrents and/or on-demand. however, there was no choice. torrents have to go, because otherwise we're losing additional cooperation. to make up for it, we will create the on-demand thing, but of course we're aware it's not a full replacement.

I don't quote you because i think it fits me, I'm promoting myself (see sig) over a host with direct downloads, so they're definately not a bad thing nor is my choice of distributing the better one - same effect - and the industry (not just competing sites) are mostly happy with you doing it for promotion (of some tracks, of yourself, of the genre).
but if you are an acclaimed radio station "serving" the community and relying on donations and subscriptions to keep afloat (comparision with price for a track or royalties for airplay to the artist here maybe??) and airing a program with follow up offering for the listener to keep is a bit contra-productive, partly also my view, and yes I do keep the odd copy of a Blockbuster rented movie but i buy all my software. Some are small developers and I'm happy to support the product thru donation or purchase, same as with AH.
It's just the way the system works and unfortunately one has to play ball otherwise some legal departments of labels or artists can have a field day with you.

 

[danmark_ori]

and that is exactly why torrents have to go. i have always been in favor of torrents, but unfortunately it's hampering us in extending our reach. certain people think that downloadable sets are universally a bad thing, and all attempts at trying to convince them of the opposite have failed. and it's not just a single case.

torrents are a nice service to have, that's why it was created. if there had been any choice, we would of course have asked the users what they prefer, torrents and/or on-demand. however, there was no choice. torrents have to go, because otherwise we're losing additional cooperation. to make up for it, we will create the on-demand thing, but of course we're aware it's not a full replacement.

The issue of stopping all torrents activities ( here, at AH.FM ) came new to me today My first emotion was one of slight disappointment. That's the very reason I'm thankful for the information you gave here, dfx. Your attribution explains the reasoning behind the decision

 

[dfx]

... I love the Torrents site. I was a paying member. If it's worth having, it's worth paying for. AH will lose that cash from me.

just to clear this point up, the torrent site is and has always been completely seperate from the radio part of AH, technically, administratively and also financially. donations to torrents site only went to the torrents site and not to main AH (the radio), and vice versa.